Latent Semantic Indexing (LSI) – Bad News for Cheap SEO Copywriting

In the past, it was possible for companies to outsource for cheap SEO copywriting, but Latent Semantic Indexing (LSI) may be changing the face of how SEO is accomplished, as well as the cost to write SEO copy.

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  Posted by Andrey Rozmaity, Seattle, Renton, Kent, Tacoma, Washington | Sep 21, 2008

  Why is this news? Hasn't Google included LSI in their algorithm back in 2005?

  
  

  
  

  Thanks,

  -Andrey

  Seattle Business Directory - Free/Paid Listings
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 21, 2008

  Hey Andrey.. maybe you should Google it and you can see there is "new" news about it. lol Actually here is a quote "In April 2008, LSI announced that it has completed the purchase of the assets of the hard ... International Google Finance".. Basically Establishing Relevancy. Thanks for reading and commenting. :)
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  Posted by Andrey Rozmaity, Seattle, Renton, Kent, Tacoma, Washington | Sep 21, 2008

  I did Google it before commenting and I even Googled it in the news section. Nothing "jumped out."

  Your quote from: http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=LSI.N&rpc=66 is about hard drives... and other hardware.

  Latent Semantic Indexing [LSI] and LSI Corporation [LSI] are not the same thing. Google Finance is a resource on businesses, stocks, and etc. Google doesn't own the LSI corporation and the LSI corporation has nothing to do with SEO.

  [Or am I missing something?]

  
  

  
  Thanks Gabrella,

  -Andrey

  Seattle Business Directory - Free/Paid Listings
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 21, 2008

  OOpss you are right... I quoted the wrong thing... but again I urge you to Google Latest NEWS on LSI and Google. I came up with September 20, 2008 (1VIZABILITY.COM - Google News) missing something. Maybe. LSI is news to a lot of people that know nothing about SEO. Anything that is educational regardless of "newness" should be news don't you think? And I really don't recall saying anything about this being "news" my article is to inform.
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  Posted by Andrey Rozmaity, Seattle, Renton, Kent, Tacoma, Washington | Sep 22, 2008

  Thanks. It's just that I've been keeping up with the latest SEO trends and there is no [zero] talk about "LSI". Your article raised an alarm.

  I finally found this: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/technologies-behind-google-ranking.html Concept Identification = LSI

  I agree that education is important and thank you for writing this article.

  
  

  -Andrey

  Seattle Business Directory - Free/Paid Listings
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  Posted by Dan McComb, Seattle, Washington | Sep 22, 2008

  Yes I agree that this is relevant information for this community, whether it's "news" or not. Part of our job on Biznik is getting small business owners noticed, and search engine optimization is one part of that. Thanks for sharing, Gabriella.

  Biznik Business Networking
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 22, 2008

  Gentlemen... thanks
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  Posted by Joy Gilfilen, Bellingham, Washington | Sep 22, 2008

  I think this was a very useful article for the independent business owner who is content rich and brilliant at their work and losing market share to SEO strategists who out speed them using brilliance in tech dalliance.

  I've been looking for information just like this on SEO that brings together knowledge in a way that I can actually use it: it bridges the gap between common sense and tech machinery. Between old ways of thinking and new models. That shows trends as they apply to my business today...so I can see how to direct my resources as a businesswoman in the future wisely.

  It even helped me understand how to discern quality copywriters and SEO people who are really good, and those who are illusionists.

  So Andry, it was useful to know how to put this article into historical sequence so we can relate it to what we know or have learned already.

  Good work to both of you.

  Plus, the article shows me how fair play can work in the new Internet world, and it gave me courage to write more with less fear. This is the end goal as we adapt to changing technology.

  That helps a bunch - let's have fun getting quality stuff online!

  Leadership Coaching for Conscious Entrepreneurs
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  Posted by Bliss Gurney, Bellingham, Washington | Sep 22, 2008

  I am also trying to learn about SEO as I am about to attempt to rebuild a website and make it more relevant. It is complicated to try to write interesting content on a website AND stay within the SEO relevancy. I think I would lean more to "interesting" writing even if I had to give up some searchability. So for me LSI would work well (if I am understanding this correctly). Thank you for bringing up some interesting topics. It seems the more I read the more I realize I have to learn... bliss
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  Posted by John Huddleston, Seattle & Bellevue, Washington | Sep 23, 2008

  Thanks Gabriella. I'm full time tax and dabble in SEO for my own firm. I hadn't heard of LSI.

  John Huddleston

  Huddleston Tax Accountants

  Tax Preparation & Accounting in Seattle Bellevue Tacoma
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 23, 2008

  Hello John.. if you have the time you should dabble in SEO.. do some test landing pages. You can see what words will work best for you. I urge everyone to learn the basics in order to make our job easier. lol Since we don't always know what the clients want.

  I have always been one to promote knowledge across the barriers of client/service provider. Some online marketing firms think this will take away their business... I disagree, I say the more information you give away the easier the road will be. Thanks for dropping by again.
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  Posted by Barry Hurd, Seattle, Washington | Sep 23, 2008

  I don't know how relevant LSI is anymore (which is funny to me because LSI was about relevance itself), but to understand that there are increasing trends in how the information is relevant.

  You can use a site like http://quintura.com/ to see some fairly basic word structures on the left with relevancy, but that is only really a small portion of the big battle.

  Moving into the current timefrace and far beyond LSI is watching authoritative personalities tell Google what is relevant. The wisdom of crowds is slowly working a way into the automated search process as sites ranging from Digg to Biznik have sections and categories that define relevancy using human brains. Ideas of relevancy in social media are now seen in various tag clouds and community grouping systems, some of which influence search engine results greatly.

  Cheap copywriting will fit into the massive industry of SEO until more human oriented search platforms are realized. Unfortunately I watch the LSI system get thrown under "the bus" of smart SEO spammers on a daily basis.

  I wish that authors here on Biznik wouldn't BOLD out important keywords in the article for SEO purposes. It is a detractor from human reading and shouldn't be done.
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 23, 2008

  Hello Barry

  My faux pas you are right... I shouldn't be so cheap and tawdry on Biznik with my bold content, but I can assure you it was not something I did on purpose here since I am not a member and I have no reason to tag my words. With that said let me explain I simply cut and paste from my SEO blog post which is where I am cheap and tawdry for traffic reasons. lol

  But I have to defend the "bold" content since sometimes it is used for other reasons than SEO and the human eye will and does pick up their "keywords" psychologically, visually, for all intent and purposes. I read something about Stomper Scrutinizer which is a and I quote "an innovative way to understand how your users see your site."

  Visually people will direct their focus on bold letters/bullets/ larger font etc. Thanks for your input.
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  Posted by Joy Gilfilen, Bellingham, Washington | Sep 24, 2008

  In fact, I bold for the human eye because people are always skimming to jump from section to section...and it is faster to skim with certain bolds that save the reader time.

  I would doubt that it matters to SEO --- why would a computer catch a bolding or give it any more credibility than a regular word? Does it in fact matter to SEO logarithms?

  Leadership Coaching for Conscious Entrepreneurs
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  Posted by Chris Wilde, Seattle, Washington | Sep 24, 2008

  Thank you , Gabriella for this topic.

  Based on recent results, I have hopes LSI is a promising dark horse for SEO marketers with true writing skills.

  In 2008 I've seen reliable and dramatic SERP jumps on client sites when I focus on LSI targeted "theme passages" instead of the old-hat repetitive use of primary "keywords."

  Could LSI technology be growing because it gives Google a strong tool to fight SPAM? I think so.

  Fortunately, for legitimate SEO shops, LSI gives authors and copywriters a clear advantage over spam-blogs and software-created content.
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 24, 2008

  Well Chris as a business comrade you and I both know as soon as someone builds it... it will be broken/hacked/figured out/ to the point of moving towards a smarter model for LSI. People as well as computers have a way of progressing at an alarming rate. I hope spam is eliminated but I know there will be another way these internet cowboys find their way in our mailboxes/blogs/ web presence. Thanks for the feedback. :)
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  Posted by Barry Hurd, Seattle, Washington | Sep 24, 2008

  @Joy- bolding a word does work on some search platforms. Just as a human gives it more credit, the original scoring systems for search engines pay attention to bold and italic words. You can highlight a percentage of words on a page, just like you can make sure a specific amount of words are keywords you are shooting for.

  @Chris @ Gabriella- do you really think LSI is going to improve that much more? I am more along the lines of seeing most of the LSI process hitting a plateau. The strange part of LSI being used by Google (I mean really, do the other engines count anymore???) is that Google will only increase the efficiency of search results based on the dollar value of the advertising margin the make. Better results do not equal better advertising profits for Google.

  As long as Google monitors those margins and continues to buy-out more competitive and efficient technology companies, I'm thinking LSI is just another dead horse.

  Case in point is the way they deal with spammers, which is identified when the spammers manage to corrupt enough ad revenue in a niche that it causes a financial reason to smite them.
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  Posted by Chris Wilde, Seattle, Washington | Sep 24, 2008

  @ Barry -

  I always like your comments. And, yes, I believe Goddle is profit-driven as they make choices and refine their algorithm. But, do you think Google also ignores improvements that can deliver better results to their searchers?

  Part of Google's profit stream relies on increasing their flow of users.

  Am I just too naive ???
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 24, 2008

  @ anyone who cares lol I guess different school of thought here. I do think it (LSI) will change. I have witnessed the change in the last 3 years...Look at how far we have come already.

  I guess I notice it since I have clients that either give us their KEI or we have to do one for them. Search engines have changed and yes Google is the "most" important.. But it's the people that search and the "new" or should I say tweeked SEO tools has given us different parameters in our search results. Now on any given day an SEO firm can charge a client anywhere from $20 - $200 for a KEI. Depending on the amount of work/words etc.

  Therefore when you are a copywriter having the right keywords to work with will be the best way to get results for the client.

  I don't know about you but in my opinion all KEI are becoming more complex and analyzing them for relevance on a short keyword to long-keyword is challenging at best.

  Sorry I do ramble on sometimes. :)

  PS I wanted to share this article with you guys... http://www.searchengineworkshops.com/articles/lsi.html NOt sure of you will be able to access it but he brings up an interesting point or two.
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  Posted by Dick Carlson, Columbia, South Carolina | Sep 26, 2008

  Thanks to all of you for a very interesting conversation. I really don't follow the details of SEO like I should, and it's great to hear some of the latest ideas batted around here.

  As someone who creates what I like to think is quality content, I'd also offer that in addition to "total eyeballs" you're also definitely getting hits from a much more targeted audience, and providing them high value. Just remember the last time you went to the trouble to bookmark a site -- was it because there were a lot of keywords, or because the content you saw really was something you thought you could use.

  Creating Amazing Technical Learning
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 26, 2008

  Hey Dick

  Yeah I have been enjoying the posts on here.. I have to admit as an SEO Geek I ramble sometimes as my last post proved.

  Yet, you make a valid point I have found myself bookmarking information and categorizing them to the point of ridiculous behavior. I have them compartmentalized with a scale of value no longer in areas of interest but of "need/use". I guess I should call the Google doctor or "Bid Daddy" and tell them to do an analysis on the new bookmarking habits. lol
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  Posted by Alma Gray, Akron, Ohio | Sep 26, 2008

  I embrace the notion of an entirely semantic web.
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  Posted by Colleen Wright, Tigard, Oregon | Sep 26, 2008

  If you are interested in a semantic search engine, check out http://www.powerset.com/. It was built on the premise of semantic search. The company was recently acquired by Microsoft.
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 26, 2008

  Hey Colleen and Alma.. thanks for the input.
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  Posted by Abey John, Chennai, Tamil Nadu India | Sep 26, 2008

  The importance of LSI is overrated. Any attempt to parse your article for LSI is pure snake oil. See this article for more details on the LSI flare up. And this was back in 2006.

  As one of the parameters in an extremely complex algorithm LSI is a contributor to the relevancy score not a key determinant.

  And Gabriella the tone and angle of your article is a poorly disguised attempt at link bait - not education. While I am all for link baiting, this article is pushing the boundaries on what makes for good content. The technology is old, the tone of urgency is false. Knowing about LSI is nice but you could have presented it differently.
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  Posted by Loni Ice, Lawrence, Kansas | Sep 26, 2008

  Do you work for Google, sir? If you do, or one of the other search engines, I can understand your tone of disdain. Computer geeks have historically been socially impaired, after all.

  However, speaking as NOT a geek, nor someone who spends every waking minute reading SEO publications, I was not previously aware of this technology.

  In addition, I noticed no linkbaiting in the article itself. There is only one link in there, and it goes to Wikipedia for the definition of the technology.

  The link in your comment, however, does not work. How. . .interesting.

  I believe that Gabriella covered the topic in an in-depth, informative manner that helped me and probably others like me to understand it and its context.

  Furthermore, if you must fling negativity around on the Internet, could you go do it to someone who has not spent an extensive amount of time writing an in-depth article. While I understand that you may have attained all new heights of techie godhead, some of us non-technical sorts actually find "old" information interesting and new. I'm aware that computer technology speeds along at an intense rate, but most of us don't.

  Furthermore, from the dreck I have seen out on the Internet today, I believe that more people could use a reminder to please write like real human beings instead of robots. This article gives that reminder gently and without judgment.

  I find your critique to be narrow-minded, prejudiced, and overly high-handed. I, obviously, strongly disagree. But, hey, at least it ticked you off enough to respond to it.

  "Egotist - A person more interested in himself than in me." - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.
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  Posted by Jahnelle Pittman, Kansas City, Missouri | Sep 26, 2008

  I have to agree with Loni. Just because it's old information for one person doesn't mean it's old information to another. This post had me searching the Internet for more information on LSI, and, after all, isn't that the point? To inform, to teach, to inspire others to seek more?

  @Abey - Gabriella has stated several times in various blogs that she wants to give helpful SEO tips and information to others. Those others are generally business men and women who may or may not be able to afford such an obviously well-informed and equally arrogant SEO specialist such as yourself. They may just prefer to do it themselves.

  Enter Gabriella and others like her trying to provide the information. That includes - for those who aren't as all-knowing as you fortunately are - information on Latent Semantic Indexing.

  The question that arises in my mind is this: If you know so much, why are you reading the tips and "obviously" outdated information that others have to share? Little SEO guru envy, perhaps? Want to make sure no trade secrets get out?

  I'm sorry, but your tone was derogatory, to say the least, and without cause in my opinion. It deserves a like response.
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  Posted by Colleen Wright, Tigard, Oregon | Sep 26, 2008

  Wow...this thread is intense!

  I teach LSI in my classes at the Search Engine Academy of Oregon. It is one of many strategies and tactics I teach and all I can say is that there are too many variables in the algorithms to determine what will be that perfect combination to send your page to the top of the rankings.

  The search engines grade on a curve so to speak, so what works for one page, may not work for another. (Although there are principles that need to be followed ie title tags, headings, etc.)

  LSI is just one of many factors to consider and will not ever by the deciding factor in rankings ... more likely inbound links are what will give you the boost needed, but LSI definitely helps create copy that doesn't appear to be written for the search engines.

  This is just one woman's opinion. Take it for what it's worth!
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  Posted by Chris Wilde, Seattle, Washington | Sep 26, 2008

  Go Gabrielle! I'm enjoying what your post started. Google is always re-shifting it's strategies. We need to be alert and testing ... and sharing.

  You brought us a good topic. I look forward to seeing what you bring next. :-)
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  Posted by Abey John, Chennai, Tamil Nadu India | Sep 26, 2008

  @Loni; @Jahnelle (and Gabrielle!)

  My apologies. I get the Biznik newsletter and I scan the topics for interesting items. This seemed interesting. Am sure Gabriella must be great at SEO and writing good content that the search bots slurp up and hits A+ for human readability. I didn't realize the larger context of her blog on SEO here at Biznik. But in any case the emphasis is flawed. LSI is useful to know but not that important. This article implies otherwise.

  The real problem with LSI is that its a pure post mortem technology. You cannot adjust your writing to take advantage of it. You will end up screwing content quality. In that sense it is one of the more brilliant relevancy filters.

  To quote from the ClickZ article: 'These days we know that most current LSI models are not based on mere local weights, but on models that incorporate local, global and document normalization weights. Others incorporate entropy weights and link weights.'

  Thusly, any chasing after LSI is pure snake oil.

  The link didn't work 'coz I messed up the html formatting. Try going here. It should work now.

  Bottom line: Write relevant on topic content and don't worry too much about LSI.

  PS: Link bait is an attempt to make your article so popular that tons of people link to it.

  PPS: No I don't work for Google. They won't touch me with a barge pole! And yes I'm narrow minded and prejudiced when it comes to information. And yes, I am an egotist! - Aren't we all??? We, after we strip away the layers, are primarily interested in us.

  PPPS: When I read old stuff presented as new it irks. Usually I cuss silently and walk away. Occasionally I rant. This is one of those occasions.
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  Posted by Dick Carlson, Columbia, South Carolina | Sep 26, 2008

  @Abey -- It would be helpful for those of us without lots of smarts in this area if we could see some of your background, experience and actual street cred in the whole area of SEO. Gabriella is very transparent with who she is, why she's publishing articles, and the source of her expertise.

  I also post here -- not "link bait" -- but what I'd like to think of as "business bait". While I find the discussion of how to get more eyeballs on my site interesting, every time I go to the grocery store they won't let me buy food with eyeballs. I'm much more interested in things that actually drive business engagements with real customers who write me checks.

  So -- what's your web address? Where have you presented? Consulted?

  Creating Amazing Technical Learning
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  Posted by Abey John, Chennai, Tamil Nadu India | Sep 26, 2008

  @ Dick: "So -- what's your web address? Where have you presented? Consulted?"

  Nowhere. Don't have a client roster to boast of. Yet. I'm still throwing mud pies at the SEO wall. Some of it sticks, some don't. LSI doesn't.

  "they won't let me buy food with eyeballs" is exactly right. It's not about SEO. It's about conversion. Can you get the visitor on your site to perform the action you want him to?

  Hmmm. Ok. Will open a blog here and write a post about this

  ....maybe (I'm lazy!)

  Oh, business bait! Forgot that this is primarily a biz networking site. Rules of engagement differ. Ouch!
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 26, 2008

  Hello Abey

  Looks like you are doing more than throwing mud pies at SEO walls... but, that's the beauty of open forums: communication, free speech and all that good stuff. I disagree with a lot of things you said and how you said them and I can say without hesitation every landing page we have written for clients has had successful, track-able conversions. But, that’s just my shameless “transparent” self-promotion… Yet, I have learned the real art of communication is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 26, 2008

  @ Colleen Wright, The point of my post was to highlight how writing for human beings was becoming more and more important these days. As you mentioned, the algorithms are becoming so complex it takes more work to "trick" the search engines than it does to just give them what they want, real relevant content. Thanks for sharing your link...
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  Posted by Colleen Wright, Tigard, Oregon | Sep 27, 2008

  Thank you Gabriella...I guess I never lost sight of the importance of good, quality content. It is one thing to get people to your site through SEO and another thing entirely to convert that visitor when they get there.

  With regard to "tricking" the search engines, I think of it as following best practices set out by the search engines to get the best rankings. This includes both on and off-page strategies.

  At SES San Jose last month, I did hear a few panelists call LSI "snake oil" as well, and that is the reason I was drawn to your article when I saw it. I am interested in whether it really works or not. I use it, I teach it, but with so many variables, it is hard to say.

  I went to Sphinn, Search Engine Land and a couple of other sites and blogs and nobody is talking about LSI these days. Does this mean it is irrelevant? I don't know. I am trying to figure that out myself!

  Your article has opened up the dialogue around LSI and for that I thank you!
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  Posted by Kelleen Griffin, Kirkland, Washington | Sep 27, 2008

  Apologies, I have been away from Biznik for about two months, mostly because I've been ill. I'm now jumping back in and I'm concerned over this chain of comments.

  Has flame become the norm here? I joined Biznik about four months ago because it reflected the type of people described in the innerpreneur articles.

  I hope that hasn't changed.
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  Posted by Dan McComb, Seattle, Washington | Sep 27, 2008

  I'd like to step in here and back what Kelleen said - Biznik is a forum for respectful conversation. It's fine to differ on your opinions, even strongly. But showing a complete lack of courtesy is a violation of Biznik's terms of service and will get you booted. Let's all work together to keep this a community that we're all proud to be part of.

  Biznik Business Networking
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  Posted by Abey John, Chennai, Tamil Nadu India | Sep 28, 2008

  @ Gabriella & Everyone

  My unreserved unconditional apology at my "complete lack of courtesy" as Dan put it so well. I only meant to say LSI isn't that big a deal, I said it badly, very badly. Sorry again.

  Also Gabriella didn't mean to imply that your landing pages aren't doing their job. You wouldn't be here if they weren't.

  All the best.
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  Posted by Joy Gilfilen, Bellingham, Washington | Sep 28, 2008

  I love this. Serious people passionate about what's up and eager to participate. The key to me is authenticity at all levels when we speak up.

  And I am going to stretch the limits of thought here about relevancy. Let's do a brain elasticity exercise that relates to the bigger picture of SEO.

  For I am a business woman trying to figure out how to postively change the future and to make all this chaos of tech stuff and mental chatter relevant to what matters to me as an enterepreneur, a mother, as a human being on this earth, and to what matters to my own life on this earth.

  1) From a * civil human discourse perspective*, let's be patient with each other as we learn the new rules of communication. We are learning how to deal with this global game of technology, global entrepreneurship and building community across diversity in a world under stress. It's a tall order for every one of us. We are all different. Tolerance, listening and adaptability are good skills to develop.

  2) From a techie, perfectionsist and egoist perspective, I think that in discussions it is important to not get taken off course with details, even though details are what matter in a game.

  Let's remember that details are all relative to the situation and context.

  My analogy is Basketball. The rules are there, and the fouls are called, and the key is to stay on the game and let the bad calls head off into the ethers as you develop sportsmanship. Some of us know the rules, some don't. So what? It's a game. SEO is actually just a game and it changes based on perspective.

  Remember that the Referrees are all in development and human, and the rules even change over time and location. We have rules in backyard games that change based on the age, skill, number, weather and ability of our players and who shows up.

  And what is really important all the time is the human and the ball and the desire to be in community, have fun and workout.

  Let's not lose track of what is important. Why do we write this stuff in the first place? We all want to grow, love and care and become better at whatever it is we do. Compassion, learning and relationship is the ball. our posts reflect only 15% of what we are striving to communicate.

  3) SEO, LSI and quality content. Why not get really real here...and figure out how to make the SEO world authentically human and make it significant to our future? Sure, the brains can all play the technical game of who's best and who can beat the game and design the algorithms.

  Why not challenge these tech gurus to think with their hearts as well? Why not think first about what matters to their real world life, and then build algorithms that matter to our global vitality and global community? This is a way to inspire change from the inside out.

  Why not challenge the search engines and the game players to get real in a new way to respond to what matters to flesh and blood humans?

  Why don't we choose to not play into the game and instead start defining the game? Instead of 'reality tv' that is not reality, lets make it SEO that is based on reality. We, the people, can do this. Why? Because we hold the power of purchase, the power of buzz, the power of focus.

  The fact is, we face environmental crisis and climate change. We face globalization and over population. We face potential species extinction, rapid loss of bio-diversity and loss of our quality of food supply. In 30 years I can verify the losses, and the impacts. This is real.

  And going into fear and insignificance isn't useful. Being real is. For being real provides solidarity and power. It provides a grounding rod.

  So let's make the SEO significant to us.

  Why not have our SEO gurus and logarithms start defining relevancy to what really matters? We can start the process by changing the quality of our posts, the quality of our conversation, the quality of what we pay attention to, the quality and intention of our language. Let's start writing articles not to trick the engines, but to matter to the people, and to the future of humanity itself.

  Sure this is a stretch, for it is a new way of thinking. I will write an article about this, for to me, this matters.

  I frankly have been very grateful for this article for without it, I would not have stretched my brain so far. The subsequent discussion it caused gives me hope that thousands of you and these tech people are listening and trying to find ways to capture what matters to people. The machinery will change as we do. So we can lead the change when we accept responsibility for it.

  Let's think content at a new level. For example, start a movement where we define relevancy as what is relevant to the entire human species and the future of quality of life on earth?

  Let's do our part as business people and lead business to pay attention to what really matters. Life itself. We can help the SEO folks do what they do well, gather, dissemminate and work with collective intelligence.

  Let's make SEO relevant to life itself.

  Joy

  Leadership Coaching for Conscious Entrepreneurs
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  Posted by Jahnelle Pittman, Kansas City, Missouri | Sep 29, 2008

  @ Abey specifically, everyone in general

  I must admit that, quite frankly, I'm biased about LSI and semantic web. I'm a SEO copywriter, which means I know about keywords, copy and meta tags, but not necessarily anything else when it comes to SEO. Learning about LSI and semantic web has been - and continues to be - an exciting adventure.

  The possibilities are endless, in my mind, which is why I was surprised to see comments on how LSI is a "dead horse". While the search engines may not be using the technology that was created in 2004 - 2005, they are using an updated version, as well as constantly tweeking semantic technology to make it better.

  While I hate to bring up Google again, look at what they've done with search refinement? I think it's an excellent example, and while it may be awhile before we see anything new, I'm convinced that we WILL see some fantastic changes to search engine technology in the future.

  From a copywriter's point of view, semantic web and the technology that comes with it is highly exciting. I can't begin to describe the frustration of researching a topic and writing good, clean copy, only to go on the Net and find a Blackhatter's keyword spamming page blasting relevant copy out of the water.

  I have to agree with Joy's comments. Content should be relevant, should be informative, should be pleasant to read - whether it's information on SEO or an article on Tooty Fruity Cereal.

  I, for one, am eager to see what develops from semantic web and LSI technology.
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  Posted by Dan McComb, Seattle, Washington | Sep 29, 2008

  Wow, that's quite a comment, Joy. Half the articles on Biznik have less meat on them your one comment did! Seriously, I'd love to see you submitting articles here. Your last line summed this whole thing up perfectly: Let's make SEO relevant to life itself. That, I think, is precisely what Google is trying to do. And what we should be doing, too.

  Biznik Business Networking
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Sep 29, 2008

  Joy, I love your commitment. I appreciate being a part of this "movement". Thank you so much for your positive insight and kind words. Reading the above posts has given me a warm fuzzy feeling, I feel like breaking out in a "We are the World" chorus.
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  Posted by Abey John, Chennai, Tamil Nadu India | Sep 29, 2008

  @Joy

  Roger on the "Tolerance, listening and adaptability" :) I guess it's easy to get carried away with the little bit that one knows and explode when that tiny squiggle is a wee bit outta alignment.

  On Content quality... call me a wet blanket ... for us in the SEO game zone relevancy is a one-dimensional moronic nit pick of the thesaurus, not the rich glorious stuff you speak of. Search engines are still primitive beasts and hence all this text massaging to make them "understand".

  That said content quality matters, relevance to the "entire human species and the future of quality of life on earth" matters, and we need to pay attention to all this and more in our writing.

  ....but...it is an assignment from hell to make it all sing!

  :)

  I can just hear the mutterings from the techies...

  Coder: "WHAT? Now, what do they want?"

  Analyst (patiently, explaining): "Your algo has to scratch the underbelly of human motivation, apply a multi-dimensional spatial filter that categorizes actions on a cause-and-effect axis, and determine relevancy based on a sustainability paradigm that is a sum of biological+planetary+galactic+psycho-spiritual sustainability. It's ok if the beta release handles only bio+planetary...

  Coder (groaning...): Just when am off on my lunch break....

  :)
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  Posted by Abey John, Chennai, Tamil Nadu India | Sep 29, 2008

  @ Jahnelle: Whenever I hear talk about the semantic web I approach it with caution now. When I first read Tim Berners-Lee talking about it, I was excited too. But then I began following Powerset's work on it and realized how much bigger a nut-to-crack that is than simple (comparatively!) statistical parsing of text - which is what Google is doing with LSI, link popularity et al. And even Powerset relies heavily on statistical crunching. Berners-Lee made a vision statement so to speak, about the direction into which we should head. But as far as I am aware we don't even have a truly workable theory that will parse the semantics of a searcher's intent...(Google's nibbling at the edges with "did you mean xyz" but that's more spell check than actual intent recognition)

  Which brings me to my pet peeve: Why the hell don't we have teleporting yet? Fossil fuel pollution solved in a jiff!
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  Posted by Joy Gilfilen, Bellingham, Washington | Sep 30, 2008

  Wow. Thanks for the endorsements and encouragement to write more. I do have a lot to say and I will post more articles.

  The truth is, I have been scared, for I am an oldie in business and a newbie in the world of blogging. This was sort of a maiden voyage in this new social medium for me.

  My experience is in the real world of community and relationships, where we do face to face business. This means I shake hands and can see, touch and feel my impact and the effect of my communication immediately.

  In that world I can increase my accuracy rate of communication and correct any errors immediately. So I can limit negative impact to a person or two. What we lose in this style is depth and speed...our communication impact on the positive side is relationally smaller. It is not better or worse than this new world, just different.

  In this world, we are dealing with the unseen and the ripple effect could be unintended and unanticipated. It could have huge impact, or none. So to have a public opinion with people I do not know, and to take it clear into realms of inspirational possibility -- that is a different world.

  It is one thing to think I understand the power of it, and another to do it and find my sea legs.

  So I am learning, and this conversation has been illuminating. And the truth is that regardless of the medium, what really matters is relevant in both worlds.

  And transparency is a learned skill that we all must get comfortable with, as we learn to stand tall in our center on our own truth.

  I look forward to more learning on this.

  Leadership Coaching for Conscious Entrepreneurs
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  Posted by Joy Gilfilen, Bellingham, Washington | Sep 30, 2008

  I had another thought and it is this:

  If we humans can learn to be accountable to what we write, and we learn to rate content with useability adn functional value, the human equation can begin to cross over the SEO and LSI type thinking, so that the human valuation is given more credit in the ranking.

  This is using humans to be intelligent, and the machinergy to score intelligence based on our judgment. This could be a win-win-win.

  joy

  Leadership Coaching for Conscious Entrepreneurs
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  Posted by Gabriella Sannino, San Francisco, California | Oct 07, 2008

  Joy it's always a pleasure reading your posts! Thanks for the wonderful words of wisdom and encouragement.